Freedom vs the needs of society.
by Albert 1

14406458
# 1. 9/9/08 1:45 PM by Jay - OR
My political philosophy allows me to be content to have our duly elected representatives decide such issues (subject to constitutional limits), as long as I'm content that they are in fact doing the deciding.

What I've noticed is that more and more our rights are being stomped on by bureaus and committees and organizations, such as poorly structured labor unions. No, no, no!

Editor's Note: What you might consider any one particular "right" might be seen as an unfair privilige to someone opposing that.

Tradition has maintained many priviliges and unfair interpretations of power such as Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and gerrymandering. The committees you seem to complain about are made up of people. If you want someone else to "do the driving" thats your perogative.

You can join a committee that addresses your needs or form one yourself.

Much of the formation of bureaus and committees are the result of an increasing population requiring the additional layer.

Power still flows two ways. From the top down and the bottom up.



37191749
# 2. 9/9/08 7:23 PM by Zjabs
Really Albert? Kindly show me some statistics backing up your statements that the restaurants and bars that cried doom are still in business. I bet nearly 75% of the start-ups ten years ago failed (or were sold as the original owners couldn't make it) in five years or less. Any bets on that?

Editor's Note: You are probably correct concerning those owners who relied on smokers however as you have noticed the businesses themselves survived with new ownershp.

If the original owners could not change they undoubtedly failed.

That's economic 101. To adjust to conditions is the key to success.

If you surveyed the present business you would find many missing that had to smoke and many new that detested it.

The one viable full time resteraunt in my village(Livonia NY) does very well.

One former owner failed due to not gauging customer needs and the previos owner went out of business before dying of cancer.

So your observation is correct but does little to support a popular reversion to allow smoking to return in public businesses.

We do have some private clubs like the VFW, American legion and Sportsman clubs locally which allow smokling and which I choose not to patronize on a normal basis.

To me this private (sort of) place is sufficient accomodation for those who must smoke while eating and drinking.



34099462
# 3. 9/10/08 7:27 AM by Zjabs
Actually Albert, it was a set-up. Those are the statistics for the restaurant/bar industry in general and have nothing to do with smoking or non-smoking. You and I disagree though on where my rights as a business-owner end- I feel I should be able to choose my patrons (and choose whom not to have as a patron) while you feel that the government can order me to accept customers I may otherwise choose not to do so. Sadly (and illogically), your way is currently winning. How long until I have to allow anyone who wants to enter my house to come in? After all, both the business premises and my house are property I own- if the government can force me to let Arabs into one, why not force me to let Arabs into the other? Or dwarves, women, blacks, etc etc?

Editor's Note: There is a great difference between a private home and public business.

Each deserves more comment than either of us could produce in one column's exchange.

Although you are more familiar with a lot of the legal details I'v been around to see what works and what doesn't in the longer run and even in many other cultures.

The first thing is to classify you as someone demanding an absolute state of reality, no exceptions no compromises and no accomodations..

There are presently accomodations for the individual in many areas which I think are reasonable and allow he rest of society to coexist is a fair amount of harmony.

The semi-private club has provided accomodation for the smoker.

I do feel the necessity or justification for many rules you would consider intrusive however this is a fluid situation. Seat belts and motorcycle helmets Yay!!

No smoking where it reaches my nose, Yay!

There are no rules or laws I AM familiar with that prevent people from choosing who not to associate with providing it is a purely private circumstance like a card party in a private home.

Business is another matter.

I know the ABC has strict rules and enforces them well.

I AM a fan of OSHA and have worked with their people on inspections of compant safety.

Unions, one of your real Bugaboos.

Have you ever correlated union vs non union areas for economic prosperity?

Short term Non often wins.

Consider Wegmans, very anti-union corporate policy yet realistic to permit meatcutters union to operate. This would seem to you to be a hardship for Wegmans.

Unions are an outgrowth of skilled trade guilds and a counter to common corporate policies.

If you know your history you know why they became popular in the U.S.

Would wegmans be as generous and caring of their employees if part of the reason was not to prevent a union takeover?

Enuff for now Z man but later will be fine.



5908371
# 4. 8/27/13 6:09 AM by little john - Mount Morris, NY
thumbsup.gif I enjoyed reading this column. Originally, before my time.(on WOTL).

There is way more here than I could comment to ; but the thing about yelling fire in a theater made me wonder...

How the news media boldly prints FIRE, or blurts out of a Foxhole network, sectarian Fire and Brimstone, and sends smoke signals every day. (every day is doomsday somewhere?)

The sect-arian network of yellow journalism has joined the opposition of conscience and gone with what pays the best for their sponsors...

Is yelling "SMOKE" permissible in society, and having the smoking police from the departments of health write tickets and use the courts to shut down proprietors who don't conform by turning in their customers???

Editor's Note: Have you ever seen the H.Q. Wells movie 'The Time Machine ?

The Morlocks lured the Eli into underground killing pens by sounding an air raid siren.

The Eloi were conditioned to seek shelter at the siren sounding.

Fear is a powerful motivator.

How does Fox get away with scare news. They employ psychological researchers and attorneys who know how close the network can get to illegality and still influence emotions.

Actually John it's not just Fox who resorts to emotional control.

Religion, politics and even parenting would be very different without the use of fear.



1024340
# 5. 8/27/13 7:57 AM by Mark - Greece
I won't dispute your premise. I will merely consider the half-dozen or more smoke-free restaurant/bars that failed quickly in the High Falls (Rochester) area, despite tax breaks and investment by the city, an anomaly. As someone who bowls, I have noticed a rapid decline in the number of league bowlers since the ban. But it is hard to determine what proportions are due to it, or the economy.

Editor's Note: High Falls failed because of political incompetence just like the Fastball Ferry did. It

Both could have worked with proper planning and response to feedback.

Both were good examples of promoting an ideja without following thrum when faced with real world conditions

The High Falls area like most of inner city is perceived as dangerous especially after dark.

That perception must change before people will patronize businesses despite all the other perks offered.

Heal the heart and the body will recover.

Downtown is still sick.



5908371
# 6. 8/30/13 10:33 AM by little john - Mount Morris, NY
thumbsup.gif Just a note. Did you ever notice that moving band at the bottom of the TV screen on Fox and some other networks... A mesmerizing tool that makes some people self hypnotic if not mass hypnosis into the subliminal, and not so subliminal messages they portray as facts...Sort of like the swinging watch tricks for hypnosis where people do stupid things because they are hypnotized and follow the suggestions of the hypnotist...

Just musin'

Editor's Note: Can you spell 'subliminal'?




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