What is consciousness? a repost with interesting comments
by Albert 1

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# 1. 5/27/04 9:25 AM by Eileen
How does your characterization of me being the "Queen Bee" fit into this? I'm not being facetious....

Editor's Note: You are at the center of our social activities, gently guiding as we look to you for direction.

Mike is the god but WOTL is much more than web. As an unelected leader you have the job by consent.

I don't feel any are openly challenging you for it. I hope it stays this informal.

I would only like it to become a more formal club if you get tired of it.



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# 2. 5/27/04 11:54 AM by BF - Roch
Bees also perform a "dance" as a rudimentary form of communication to let others know where the pollen-laden flowers are.

I'd almost pay money to watch all you regular WOTLers don your gossamer bee wings and dance around! Heh.

Editor's Note: our esays are our dance, the responses the honey



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# 3. 5/27/04 1:52 PM by jennifer
there are many levels of consciousness and even more unconscious processes that guide our conscious life, and each person is different in how they understand their conscious awareness of things and their control or lack of control over it, and few probably know how to tap into the many unconscious processes we have.

i'm into studying pain control and pain thresholds because i've been told by many doctors and dentists over the years that i have the highest pain threshold they've ever seen. and i tell them, that i feel pain probably the same as anyone else, but i've learned how to tap into "something" within myself and so i don't react to pain. it's almost as if i can shut it off; or as if i become one with it; i haven't decided which it is. i'm consciously aware of pain but i go into a zen state, something i learned long ago how to do, it's like i can separate myself from it and not react to it, and because of that i can nearly just ignore it. but at the same time i'm extremly consciously aware of pain, but somehow i can trigger something within myself so that it doesn't bother me. i've recently decided to make a study of it because i had a minor surgical procedure done recently and i freaked my doctor and her nurse out because i didn't flinch or move and carried on a conversation through it, and she goes; "i've never had a patient like you, you don't even more, you're like Spock!" and i told her that it was something i consciously did but didn't really know how i did it, as i just called it "zenning out". but, it's made me wonder, because my dentist has said the same thing to me a number of times and when i gave birth years ago i freaked the nurses out in the hospital when my contractions were off the chart and i wasn't in any pain. i think there are so many things we can do with our mind that we're not aware of, and that the potential is endless and i find it extremely fascinating....how it relates not only to thought and actions but also to the physical realm as well, as everything is intertwined and connected, one just has to find the right path.

Editor's Note: Are you possibly aware and able to displace the observer where you become you are aware of what the body is feeling but not at the same center.

If the body is obderved as if from a remote camera looking at it the concept of feeling becomes one of information rather than pain reaction.

This is good till you want to be at body central to experience the good stuff including what I dont need to get explicit on.

Some learn to displace and stay there devoid of emotion, both good and bad.

You start the process by forming the image in mind of a camera in a room corner looking at the body.



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# 4. 5/27/04 2:06 PM by Zjabs
People always thought humans were the only beings that can think and have the realization that they can think. Now that is being challenged- some amazing studies going on. Even birds can follow your gaze which is a low-level sign of intelligence- to the point that they ran an experiment with a sheet put up and a person moving his gaze there- birds would jump off their perch and check out the other side of the sheet to see what was there- quite amazing. I think too many people are of the mindset that humans are special creatures- we're not. And time will bear this out.

A little off-topic but still interesting nonetheless.

-Zjabs

Editor's Note: Thinking from body center in real time is normal for animals.

To imagine something in another place or time may be impossible for animals.

A pack or grouping of any sort of animals or people has its own agregate consciousness.



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# 5. 5/27/04 3:38 PM by Michael - Provo
"Bee god" says "be good." :)

Editor's Note: Makes sense to me



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# 6. 5/27/04 4:28 PM by Karen - West Jordan, UT
No.

Editor's Note: as Michael would say, "Interesting"



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# 7. 5/27/04 4:36 PM by jen
no it's not "out of body" at all, no observance of myself as separate or anything like that; quite the contrary, i feel it's a very internal thing, it's a mindest i get into; not as though i don't feel or experience pain but i can tolerate it; it's like an endurance kind of thing, but i actually wonder if i trigger some kind of physiologic thing, especially given the fact that i've had a number of people comment on it, it makes me wonder.

and, no, no problem with the "other" stuff...in fact, way on the other side of the scale with that...and for that i'm unendingly grateful :) (but i do find that is better as well with the same kind of internal focus and concentration and endurance...yet another topic that intrigues me to no end, and to which i've devoted much research:)

Editor's Note: If you have ever written on that but feel it too specialized for WOTL I would like to see your work.



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# 8. 5/27/04 6:11 PM by albert
Although she answered rather tersely I think Karen meant that the regular God that we are familiar with the concept of is also the Bee's god.

Still there is that aggregate consciousness which seems to act as an entity on its own when it comes to hive management.

I did not see anyone propose this so I will:

Is there an aggregate consciousness for the entire human race or for that matter all of life.

If so how would it be described?



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# 9. 5/28/04 7:55 PM by riley - midway, ut
In response to your last question...conscience.

Editor's Note: Thanks for an interesting insight as you just helped me with a breakthrough.

I could rewrite my whole essay based on how the two relate and when I do I guess you deserve a mention.



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# 10. 7/28/08 12:44 AM by Michael Richard
Up to this point, I think that humanity as a whole has been progressing like a reaction of elements in a scientific experiment. I hope that enough us will soon be able to think on a meta level in order to avoid a deterministic completion of the reaction. Now that other nations are catching up to us both economically and militarily, the need to think in this way is becoming apparent.



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# 11. 7/28/08 2:42 PM by L.M.
I find it odd that "JEN" talks about her superior mind control over pain and yet I recall her writing about her stash of narcotic pain medications, that she has "facet joint problems" in her back and has had Doctors give her opioids all the time. Sure sounded like she enjoyed them so maybe she didnt' really use them for pain. Interesting dont' you thing?Me? I am into researching superior MEMORY FUNCTION!! That is what I have control over and that's why I remember obtuse bits of information like someone mentioning their use of pain medication.

Editor's Note: Charismatic and fundamentalist thinking does'nt see the need to be logical or consistant in their lifestyle.

I have a friend in Toronto who took the Silva course.

Personally I'm not the greatest in remembering details or memorizing unnecessary info.

If she really wants pain control I could introduce her to what's called by some "astral projection"

It's easier than some think and not a tool of the devil.

Have you ever considered that mind is like a holographic projection and functions in a sphere larger than the brain?



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# 12. 8/31/13 1:25 PM by little john - Mount Morris, NY
thumbsup.gif From my UN consciousness?

I just happened to think that there is one thought pattern that is alien to all religions, races, and creeds, including atheists and agnostic scientists...

The non-affiliated poly-theist, who reasons, and rationalizes, with logic, the good things out of all divergent sects and then makes a unique individual assessment from his/ or her own experience...

and the innate knowledge, (instinct?), of right and wrong; good and bad...(light versus darkness)

Thanx for the food for thought. I enjoyed the column and the comments...

Editor's Note: You have just defined 'mystic' and 'mysticism' as good as Funk and Wagnalls.



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# 13. 8/31/13 1:28 PM by little john - Mount Morris, NY
thumbsup.gif e pluribus unum, a polytheist slant

and the obverse,

Vox Populi Vox Dei is inclusive of all people, not exclusive by any derogatory definition...

Just an afterthought... Thanx Albert. Your friend John

Editor's Note: the 'people', perhaps; the individual, not so much.



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# 14. 8/31/13 2:14 PM by Escalier - OR
Everyone who has challenged or attacked "cogit ergo sum" has come off looking foolish, in my estimation.

Consciousness is one of the last frontiers of human, or medical, science. (Material science has no standing to proclaim an opinion, inasmuch as there is no credible evidence--even very credible speculation--that consciousness is material, and the actual evidence is all to the contrary.)

Mystic, or not, I maintain that consciousness was not created ex nhilio, nor is it destroyed by either amnesia or death (which can be explained materially).

Okay, a little off point, but I haven't learned to control myself sometimes.

Editor's Note: To make such a definitive statement that consciousness is not material or physical perhaps causes. Me to ask you to define it without contradicting Oxford or Webster. In my opinion you may be limiting your definition to certain aspects of consciousness but hardly the entire spectrum of mental function as covered in many unabridged reference works .but hold on :from what I have learned I can agree that the process I call consciousness is an aspect of all living matter and perhaps even mineral compound based cohesive entities that are considered inanimate. If as I suspect consciousness is the key to a comprehensive theory of everything then such a structure of reality would be a totally harmonious entity.

The language fails me at this point so I'll mention the quantum physicist attempts at a theory of everything to only relate to a larger concept way beyond the tome space aspect of physical reality.

The missing element is obviously mind,

I doubt quantum physicists have successfully classified mind and determined the role it plays in the real world of physical n phenomona.

Just musi'n Jay but definitely a work in progress. Tour commentary has helped me see more of the elephant.



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# 15. 8/31/13 3:16 PM by Tom Dey - Springwater, NY
I'm glad you reposted this, Albert; I had missed it 1st time around? I of course think about this sort of thing a lot. The world around us has always amazed me since I became conscious. I observed and asked my-self, "Wow! Just LOOK at all this stuff. If I weren't taking it all in, I would have guessed nothing or chaos more likely." And then the inevitable progressions, "Why I; How do I fit into this picture; How did I get stuck in this body; When I think, what is happening; When I know, what does that mean?" etc. Later I learned a lot of physics quantum mechanics and then information theory...actually earning grad degrees in both...and "working in the fields!" Now I'm recently retired --- and still ask the same questions. My prejudice leads me to guess that personal consciousness is quantum mechanical manifest in the brain. But through "quantum entanglement" (proven at least in few-particle experiments!) personal consciousness "reaches out" to the universe - AKA you and everything else. Converse is my insane proposition that "particles 'preferentially' combine in certain ways because they WANT to." I shared this with a Nobel physicist at a dinner...and he DIDN'T LAUGH. We had a hell of a good conversation and he was more than willing to entertain my ramblings and questions. I believe sometime there will be an epiphany breakthrough in this puzzle. Scott Adams essentially said the same thing in one of his books --- Scott is not all jokes, actually a very deep thinker. Tom

Editor's Note: You would have been right at home at some of the Rosicrucian gatherings I have attended in the US and Mexico. We are going to have to get together over a beer or two some day since the limitations of this media for effective communication I are obvious.

I have developed a graphic representation of personal reality that loses too much when I try to reproduce and explain it on this WOTL channel.




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