Vengeance, Punishment, Compensation and the Law=repost from 2004
by Albert 1

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# 1. 5/24/04 2:10 PM by Michael - Provo
The grave is the securest prison known to man. Only one person's ever made it out by himself, and he now holds the keys...and he's not likely to look favorably on the murderers we send.

Editor's Note: You have stated the only reason I can see for killing a murderer so he wont kill again,

Some proponents seem to think its ok if we goof and kill a few innocents as long as the ratio doesn't get to high I disagree.

And if they truly reform

My solution would be a long sleep or brain surgery. as I don't feel second chances are worth it to innocents who might get murdered from a released con. A "devils Island for parolees would work also. If they kill each other thats is not the states fault.

But for vengeance No way!



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# 2. 5/24/04 7:17 PM by rudy
we often hear that our's is the most violent country in the civilized world. if true, it would suggest that whatever we are doing now isn't working. many say that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. others say it would be if it didn't take so long.

a friend once observed that the purpose of the death penalty was punishment, nothing more. look no further. you kill, you die.

simple when you look at it that way.

Editor's Note: To me the only thing the death penalty does is stop the killer from doing it again which in light of the other alternatives still has merit. If it would stop other people from killing it would be great but few consider the penalty when they kill either because it is done in anger or they think they will get away with it. so as a preventive measure it is a failure. Also the rich ones like OJ hire good lawyers and sill get away with it. It is not fair..

Now they are admitting mental defectives which goes against all progress I thought this country has made.



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# 3. 5/24/04 10:44 PM by erik - spencerport
thumbsdown.gif use the observer function that you speak of. you have a 12 year old daughter. she is the love of your life. you know everything about her. she goes missing two days later found dead. cops pick up the scum that killed her. on tv they play video of him leading her away from a convenience store. you watch over and over in horror. your daughter was raped,strangled,and thrown out of a car naked. thoughts go thru your mind...........you know her..........she called out for her daddy..............you weren't there.........you watch the video a thousand times as she is led away never to be seen alive again.............then you watch the man take her arm.............feel it albert..........she is your daughter......now i ask you do you want punishment for him? do you want to imprison him for life because your to enlightened for the death penalty? do you want to meet him some day shake his hand and tell him you forgive him?...........OR ALBERT........DO YOU WANT TO KILL THIS MOTHERF***ER WITH EVERY OUNCE OF YOUR BEING. DO YOU SEE YOUR BABIES FACE WHILE YOU PLUNGE A KNIFE INTO HIS CHEST. DO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE HE NEVER HAS ANOTHER SMILE ON HIS FACE? DO YOU WANT THE NIGHTMARES TO STOP? FEEL IT ALBERT SHE WAS YOUR BABY........ vengeance.......GOD WILL LOOK THE OTHER WAY

Editor's Note: as a human being I would probably do as you wrote. 1. to act out of anger is the way we as animals used to act all the time 2. God sees all and cant "look the other way"(people look the other way) 3. actually in a situation the true answer to a specific question cant be predicted

4. New York's former Governor Cuomo an avowed opponent of the Death Penalty was asked this typoe question many times

5. to kill a person on the spot is different than the state going thru a lengthy process to do it 6.I wusually cheer mentally if a true killer is killed in a police shoot out as it saves everyone a lot of grief, that being said it is still a lot different than the mechanism of the government executing as an intellectual process as "punishment"



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# 4. 5/25/04 8:32 AM by erik - spencerport
if that had happened to your daughter would you be in favor of the death penalty? my point was to put you in the position of a person who lost a loved one in a brutal way. it is easy to say your not in favor of it when you have not been in need of it. there is no doubt the death penalty is a sick thing.i have been against it my whole life.i changed my mind the day timothy mcviegh was put to death for two reasons 1.it did not appear that he suffered. 2.it hit me that day that i had never really put myself in the victims families shoes.it was a closure for them. you must have a good idea of how you would feel if this had happened to your loved one. im not talking about vigilante justice. would you want the state to act in your behalf and put your daughters killer to death? do you feel when you make the case against the death penalty you are grasping the feelings of the people who are being represented by the state?

Editor's Note: You need to set emotion aside and re-read my first response to you.

I have no daughter so any response would be speculative.

If you dont read and understand all of what I say then communication begins to fail as my words go by you without sinking in.

Dont take this too badly since it is the case with many of the ones who partially read my writing and therefore misjudge me.



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# 5. 5/25/04 8:59 AM by erik
i know you feel im not grasping what your saying. i was asking you to speculate. this is my point. i think your downplaying emotion. humans have emotion. without it your spock from star trec.emotion is not somthing to be cast aside

Editor's Note: I am fully aware of emotion its need cause and effect but do not let it control my life.

In a martial arts contest the emotional fighter will lose if against an equal opponent who thinks rather than feels/.

Study Sun Tzu(Chinese emperor and General) as he is the person taught in US military colleges as how to strategize war.

The Vietnamese used his and General Giaps strategies and now the Americans teach what they learned the hard way.



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# 6. 5/25/04 9:39 AM by erik
i would have to split the difference with you on competitive sparring in martial arts. controlled emotion wins the day. i practice isshinryu kata and basics at least once a week. id like to attend class on a regular basis but the constant criticism in martial arts is hard for me to take. i am overly sensitive. even though i understand this its still hard to deal with. i feel like i had my fill of criticism when i was younger. its something i have to get over

Editor's Note: You will find that the top American masters mostly had oriental teachers at one time in their careers.

I mentioned to you before that although you can study and participate in the Oriental Martial arts without the tradition those who respect it are further ahead . I have had two Oriental Teachers. A korean Tang So Do private instructor while in Korea in 1963 and a Chinese Gung Fu group instructror.in 1965

My present Tai chi and Gung Fu teacher is American-Caucasion, his teacher was Dutch- Chinese and the head of our school is Pure Chinese who lives in China and will visit us for training this summer in Syracuse.



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# 7. 9/27/15 8:43 AM by Mark - Greece
I believe that a lot of people favoring the death penalty now are looking at it financially, not religiously. Estimates of anywhere from 20k to 70k/yr to house a prisoner upset people, especially when they are struggling to raise a family on half of that. And the constant reminder of the 'perks' they get, real or exaggerated, does not sit well. It's just a dream, but I'd love to see the incarceration of our hardened criminals outsourced to a poorer yet stricter country, with the 'bread and water' treatment and 'exiled to Siberia' mentality. Might save us at least 50%, and hopefully impress upon them that they don't want to return to this place again. The media is playing up that this is one of Rochester's bloodiest summers, much of it caused by parolees and repeat offenders. I don't have an answer, but early parole just because of overcrowding is not one. I won't get into abortion, clearly society is split almost 50/50 on when life begins, and the Supreme Court has spoken. But that altruism fades rapidly when talking of someone who has not once, but repeatedly taken innocent human life.

Editor's Note: Belive it or not condemned prisonors cost more in many cases with appeals etc than people think.r



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# 8. 9/27/15 2:09 PM by little john - mount morris
thumbsup.gif And why did not Timothy McVeigh go to college rather than serve honorably in the first Gulf War of Tonic kins...(Toxic kin)

He Became the first federal prisoner executed by federal laws of Capital Punishment, not because he was guilty, but out of spite and the cover-up of the federal agents murders he became unhinged over...

Six days prior to his scheduled execution, the FBI turned over thousands of documents of evidence it had previously withheld to McVeigh's attorneys. As a result, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft announced McVeigh's execution would be stayed for one month.[77]

The execution date was reset for June 11, 2001. McVeigh invited California conductor/composer David Woodard to perform pre-requiem Mass music on the eve of his execution. He requested a Catholic chaplain. He requested two pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream for his last meal.[80]

McVeigh chose William Ernest Henley's poem "Invictus" as his final statement.

Editor's Note: Killing sacrificial goats has little to do about good and evil.

They may be innocent of the crime accused of or caught red-handed doing it.

They may feel their execution serves a cause just like the State feels it does but definitely a different one.

Lincoln knew this when he decided not to prevent executions during the war.

Harry Truman knew it when approving the Rosenbergs killings.




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